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DieselPlace
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we used to have a Spamming for 50 rule on our site. And the community policed it. So anyone clearly pumping in replies to hit target got culled.
In our Marketplace section members must have 25 posts and 30 days being a member before they can post in the Marketplace.
On rare occasions, we catch new members posting multiple times in multiple areas just to bump the count up so they can post in the Marketplace.
Of course, when caught they get all those posts removed and get a lecture from staff on posting etiquette
 

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In our Marketplace section members must have 25 posts and 30 days being a member before they can post in the Marketplace.
On rare occasions, we catch new members posting multiple times in multiple areas just to bump the count up so they can post in the Marketplace.
Of course, when caught they get all those posts removed and get a lecture from staff on posting etiquette
BUT the post count remains at the same elevated level, even if moved to the bin. Admin's are supposed to be able to lower the count via ACP but that does not seem to work. The option is there but if tried, the result does not alter the count. We never delete (which really just removes the post from sight) but rather move to the staff area "bin").

What DOES work is to merge all those offending "binned" posts into ONE post, still in the bin. That method WILL reduce the post count to only 1 post having been made (y)
 

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DieselPlace
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BUT the post count remains at the same elevated level, even if moved to the bin. Admin's are supposed to be able to lower the count via ACP but that does not seem to work. The option is there but if tried, the result does not alter the count. We never delete (which really just removes the post from sight) but rather move to the staff area "bin").

What DOES work is to merge all those offending "binned" posts into ONE post, still in the bin. That method WILL reduce the post count to only 1 post having been made (y)
I've also noticed any old Infraction points remain from V Bulletin regardless if they were removed or not..
 

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SkyscraperCity Administrator
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Please Never Spam Clean or Ban new members without any flags in the approval queue if they do not post.

We get a ton of ban appeals in our Contact Us due to false flag bans by members who sign up that just want to check out the community. Once they break the rules, spam, or scam it is ok to action the above but we never want to ban members based on a hunch. This will also start to flag their accounts to Stop Forum Spam and Akismet and cause more issues for them.

It is not a requirement for them to post an intro thread after joining the community. There are plenty of active lurker members out there who just want to use the Following, Subscribe, or other features of the software that do not post publicly. Others might be new to forums and not really sure about the culture or how they work. A welcome private message can be set up to show them the important things such as rules, important stickies, or the intro section.

These are public communities where all are welcome to share their passion and knowledge, our Mods and Admins are the keys to the successful building, growing, and managing of the community.
From VerticalScope's point of view the argumantation above is comprehensible.

I can only speak about scammers/spammers based on the SkyscraperCity but I think it is more or less the same on the other forums operated by VerticalScope.
My experience shows me on a daily routine that I am right by banning newly registered members although they did not post any content.
There are enough parameters of those newly registered members which help me to identify and to isolate them.
From my point of view it is much better to ban them proactively.
This helps to keep the forum more or less clean and to reduce scam/spam reports regarding those newly registered members.
So I will keep banning such newly registered members proactively.
 

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OneFora Sherpa
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3,794 Posts
Discussion Starter · #86 ·
Would it be possible to have a 鈥渓urking鈥 type of membership where subscribe and new posts are available but they can鈥檛 post? If they want to post they could upgrade where all the rules of the site then apply. That would really solve a lot of problems. Call them an 鈥淎ctive Guest鈥 in primary user group or something along those lines with secondary user group limiting access. Or some kind of back door rule. Not often we can have our cake and eat too but that鈥檚 what something like this would be.
I see no need for this, a registered member is a registered member.

I think the key is to make newbies feel more welcome. Making them agree to a set of rules that predict behaviour they may not have considered is less welcoming than them posting, making an error and a moderator reaching out to guide them.

Not picking on you but your site rules threaten to ban a user 5 times in the first 5 lines. We need to stop preemptively moderating and start letting people come on board and be steered gently, without scaring them off. After all, forum traffic isn't exactly growing and forum engagement is lower than ever, so opening the doors and relaxing things a little can only benefit us all.


 

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How about giving us a User Reject Clean where they get banned but no other flags are thrown and then have an option to delete all posts or not? Seems many use SpamClean for that reason only, it's easy.
 

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Lotustalk Administrator
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106 Posts
Post up in your Area 51 section on your home community and @VS_Mike will get you sorted with a Classifieds Rule or intro Private Message to new members.

Please Never Spam Clean or Ban new members without any flags in the approval queue if they do not post.

We get a ton of ban appeals in our Contact Us due to false flag bans by members who sign up that just want to check out the community. Once they break the rules, spam, or scam it is ok to action the above but we never want to ban members based on a hunch. This will also start to flag their accounts to Stop Forum Spam and Akismet and cause more issues for them.

It is not a requirement for them to post an intro thread after joining the community. There are plenty of active lurker members out there who just want to use the Following, Subscribe, or other features of the software that do not post publicly. Others might be new to forums and not really sure about the culture or how they work. A welcome private message can be set up to show them the important things such as rules, important stickies, or the intro section.

These are public communities where all are welcome to share their passion and knowledge, our Mods and Admins are the keys to the successful building, growing, and managing of the community.

Jeff
Just saw this what do you want us to do when new member is from highly malicious VPN and the usual spam country? I've been using spam so that spam programs can use to learn. They haven't broken rules so I don't use ban. I certainly am not going to let them stay on the site so what do you suggest?
 

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OneFora Sherpa
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3,794 Posts
Discussion Starter · #89 ·
Just saw this what do you want us to do when new member is from highly malicious VPN and the usual spam country? I've been using spam so that spam programs can use to learn. They haven't broken rules so I don't use ban. I certainly am not going to let them stay on the site so what do you suggest?
You can "report" them to the report queue and leave them in there to keep an eye on them. Then you can see if they start spamming or edit their profile info to have spam links down the road.

Some Mods start a thread in Area 51 for members to "Watch" also to check back in on them.

Note we do have a lot of military members on bases all over the world who hit our communities also who sometimes have to use shared VPNs.

Jeff
 

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GTR
Joined
328 Posts
@AG Jeff out of interest. Do we have any statistics around what % of new users go on to post. And of those what % is spam.

I just think so many sites admins are wasting time removing accounts that will never ever post, even if they were registered by a spam bot.

if you dont wake up every morning to waves of spam posts then it鈥檚 unlikely you鈥檒l be over run by stepping back and just waiting for those that WILL post, to do so.

a few years back a suspect registration was almost certain to post but these days it鈥檚 just too industrialised to bother trying to get ahead of. I certainly don鈥檛 bother on the 3 sites I moderate and have had no issues.
 

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OneFora Sherpa
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Discussion Starter · #91 ·
@AG Jeff out of interest. Do we have any statistics around what % of new users go on to post. And of those what % is spam.

I just think so many sites admins are wasting time removing accounts that will never ever post, even if they were registered by a spam bot.

if you dont wake up every morning to waves of spam posts then it鈥檚 unlikely you鈥檒l be over run by stepping back and just waiting for those that WILL post, to do so.

a few years back a suspect registration was almost certain to post but these days it鈥檚 just too industrialised to bother trying to get ahead of. I certainly don鈥檛 bother on the 3 sites I moderate and have had no issues.
I do not but will see if I can find out.

Agree 100% also.

Jeff
 

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I think a lot of time is wasted trying to make every forum the same.
In simple terms, forums are not the same. We may all be Fora now, but that is not where many began.

If folks do not want to hunt spam and malevolent users, that's fine.
If others decide to hunt them down, that is fine too. In fact, they are doing the former a favour.

There is a common theme (from all angles) that we should all be the same.
We are not Borg, we are individuals. Our goals are united (at least for the most part), but our routes may differ.
We are a reflection of our forums.

As long as staff are finding time to be members and enjoy a forum, whilst supporting forum and members, all is well.

 

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DieselPlace
Joined
923 Posts
@AG Jeff out of interest. Do we have any statistics around what % of new users go on to post. And of those what % is spam.

I just think so many sites admins are wasting time removing accounts that will never ever post, even if they were registered by a spam bot.

if you dont wake up every morning to waves of spam posts then it鈥檚 unlikely you鈥檒l be over run by stepping back and just waiting for those that WILL post, to do so.

a few years back a suspect registration was almost certain to post but these days it鈥檚 just too industrialised to bother trying to get ahead of. I certainly don鈥檛 bother on the 3 sites I moderate and have had no issues.
About two and a half months ago I had a new member account from South Korea come in and post about an exhaust issue on an old 6.2L diesel.
. Other members chimed in and helped answer the members questions. Then they went silent.
Some time had passed and another new account came in from South Korea with a very similar username to the first one and they posted something a little unusual and off the wall to a thread so I banned both accounts as a spam precaution.

Within a week VS overrode the ban on the first account with no explanation to site staff, didn't inquire about the site staff ban, nothing....
So far the Korean account has not posted another thing but I am watching...
 

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OneFora Sherpa
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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
About two and a half months ago I had a new member account from South Korea come in and post about an exhaust issue on an old 6.2L diesel.
. Other members chimed in and helped answer the members questions. Then they went silent.
Some time had passed and another new account came in from South Korea with a very similar username to the first one and they posted something a little unusual and off the wall to a thread so I banned both accounts as a spam precaution.

Within a week VS overrode the ban on the first account with no explanation to site staff, didn't inquire about the site staff ban, nothing....
So far the Korean account has not posted another thing but I am watching...
If they reach out to us through Contact us to ban appeal they are normally a legit user. We do some quick checks then will reverse the ban if warranted.

In this case, it was a real user, however, we get hundreds of these ban appeals a week and are unable to follow up with the Admin team in each case.

Jeff
 

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Lotustalk Administrator
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If they reach out to us through Contact us to ban appeal they are normally a legit user. We do some quick checks then will reverse the ban if warranted.

In this case, it was a real user, however, we get hundreds of these ban appeals a week and are unable to follow up with the Admin team in each case.

Jeff
When I ban someone we know that you will do the right thing and let them back if they appeal and that's what we want. No need to contact LT. By having to go thru the appeal process it does instill new users that rules are to be followed and they always do once let back in I have found.
 

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All Ford Mustangs Mustang Evolution
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I wonder if the lack of communication between VS and site Admin/Mods ever results in the ban being applied again. A site staffer may think the ban being lifted was an error.
 
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DieselPlace
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I wonder if the lack of communication between VS and site Admin/Mods ever results in the ban being applied again. A site staffer may think the ban being lifted was an error.
That is the precise reason I think the ban appeals need to go to the site level and let the site staff handle things. If there is a question then they should reach up to VS
 

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Lotustalk Administrator
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That is the precise reason I think the ban appeals need to go to the site level and let the site staff handle things. If there is a question then they should reach up to VS
That would work well for LT and take some workload off VS. It still gets the message thru that the rules need to be followed. Most all of our bans are because of not introducing themselves which weeds out the bots. Good idea!
 

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If banned for other than spam (eg SFS hits), or outside the time limit for spam button we encourage our staff to clearly identify why in the reason for ban box.
This hopefully helps VS if they get appeals.

We also maintain a watch list where we keep evidence for bans other than SFS issues, eg behaviour towards others.

Very much aware that VS has a huge volume of these appeals.
Anything that can help quick decisions has to be a plus.

If ban was limited (eg a week) and user let back early, I wouldn't kick off.
They have learned that there are consequences to not following the rules and that is all we want. Not out to punish, but demonstrate that there are limits.
 

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DieselPlace
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That would work well for LT and take some workload off VS. It still gets the message thru that the rules need to be followed. Most all of our bans are because of not introducing themselves which weeds out the bots. Good idea!
It wouldn't be hard to set it up. VS just needs to create an @appeals then anytime a member disputes a ban the site staff could add @appeals to the conversation for VS determination
 
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